2.26.2006

jawboning

Hi Ya'll!

C'mon round to the back porch iffin' you got something serious to jaw about. Lemonade is as good as out on the Front Porch, but back here we can get down to the meat of things (out front is for lighter fare like getting to know each other, sharing personal stories, photos and art and such.)

On the Back Porch we engage each other in the Southern Tradition of Jawboning. Mah dictionary says that jawboning is public persuasion. Ain't nuthin' as persausive as truth, my granddaddy said. So I'm offering some issues of current interest back here. If you ain't up to debatin' today, why fly by and let me know you left me a pot o' petunias on the Front Porch.

From time to time I will shock you by not sayin' so much myself (that's tough for ole' Aunty Belle, not to jaw herself!) but jes' leading ya'll on to see what comes up.

First topic of the back porch is: Where should we draw the line on digital snooping?

They's a company in Georgia that has so much information on dang near everybody that their president is asking that laws be passed to keep his company and others like from misusing their data...they's asking to have some controls slappped on 'em....Lawdy!

Is it even possible to stop the snoops now that the technology genii is out of the bottle? Is Big Brother inevitable?

29 comments:

Hellpig said...

Hey aunty thx for the invite,I will hang back here,never been much for the front porch scene,best to keep the pig away from the general public.

I really enjoy your posting, I know I can make this a regular stop for I know it will never be dull.

Reverend X said...

We draw the line at the "Save file" button of the database. Technology records your everymove nowadays. That is unavoidable. But creating personal permanent records isn't. Delete the files. That way crime can be investigated using the best and newest technologies. Also, enforce the current laws, like FISA.

Side note. I have never filled out a Shoppers Card with personal information. The first time I saw one, the flags went up in my head. Of course, you save money using one, but the form to get it ain't an affadavit. Write in Go Han care of the the Kame House. Whatever.

Bird said...

Aunty Belle,

Can we have mint juleps on the back porch as we jawbone?

Did I understand correctly? Some corporate president thinks his company has so much data - it wants a law to prevent the company from mis-using it? My - a company with a conscience and an awareness of how easy it can be to cross the line? What's the name of this company? I am powerful curious.

Here's a question for you and the folks hangin' about the back porch (any BBQ to be had?):

Marge, an old lady who lives in a nice, safe little neighborhood, mounts a surveillance camera on the outside of her house which records any action not only on her driveway, but on the public sidewalk that passes in front of her house as well. She claims this surveillance is for security purposes (she is an older woman living alone and wants the reassurance of security measures to protect her person and property).

Legalities aside, does she have an ethical, moral right to record what occurs on the public sidewalk in front of her property? Is her ethical, moral right different from, say a municipalities "right" to have camera surveillance at stoplights - to see who is stopping and who is not?

What degree of privacy can we expect and demand, in the public domain?

Blue said...

Hey Aunty Belle,

Opinions from down under here.....

We have this bizarre thing in Australia called 'Privacy Laws' these dictate what companies are allowed to store, for how long & what they are allowed to do with it.

Then (if that don't beat all) we have a privacy ombudsman - so if you think your privacy has been violated you go to this person who investigates & will uphold your complaint in court.....

But we are just a backwater without legislated freedom of speech :-)

Evil Anne McFlint said...

For years I've changed out/stored the daily surveillance tapes at the bar I manage. I have STACKS of tapes of people doing potentially incriminating things in my bar. Big deal.

I have handed tapes to public officials for alleged crimes without even hesitating to think about the perp's constitutional rights. Why?

The 4th Amendment does not protect anyone who does "stupid shit" out in public. (There's a proper cite out there, I'm speaking 'laymen' terms because it suits me.) Privacy is defined in places like bathrooms, dressing rooms, locker rooms, etc. etc. So if Marge over there wants to survey her residence with video, she can. Ethics and morals be damned. (Hell the Paparazzi have been doing it for years.) BUT, if she records someone in her bathroom, without their knowledge... well then Marge has a problem. (In more ways than one).

Anyhoo... I did find THIS law amusing:

165.825 Sale of drugged horse. (1) No person shall sell or offer for sale any horse that is drugged, tranquilized or otherwise sedated without the consent of the buyer.
(2) Violation of subsection (1) of this section is a misdemeanor. [1971 c.175 §§1,2]

I think you'd know when a horse is fucked up. They have glassy eyes, reek of patchouli, chew lots of gum... you get the idea.

Hellpig said...

Where should we draw the line on digital snooping?

If snooping stops just one dirty bomb from going off,is this not worth it?

At this time in history and technology,we can't afford not too use the resorces at our Governments disposal.

Where should the line be?if it's not terror related,not admissable in court.

By terror related I mean bug the Mosques,All of them!,Monitor the boarders,review e-mails and websites with key word phrases,Tap the cell and land lines of potential risk canidates,shit I even suggest planting a bug/tracking device up JOHNNY ARABS ASS from gitmo then release him to return to his favorite past time burning flags and chopping heads.

For the reality is whether the left or right wants to admit it.JOHNNY ARAB wishes us harm, all of us, the left the right to him we are all the infidels.

Aunty Belle said...

Hey ya'll--so pleased to have you visit.

I'm jes' a frettin' about this digital spook-see. On C-span some fella was explaining how they matches your medical records with all sorts of other data---the car you drive, like your grocery store purchases, Rev, if you're silly enough to fill out those saver cards. I doan do it.

Then here's the ?
If they matches your medical records wit that cherry pie and donuts you bought at the Mable's Market, and you have diabetes....then can they getcha' insurance taken away? Make you wear a digital sugar tally on your laig? You know--like the sex offenders or Martha Stewart with that electronic baby-sitter?

What if we gets a bill passed on universal healthcare--can we as folks who pays expect that sick folks keep to doc's orders..I mean, if somebody with 310 cholesterol is chomping down on mah poa-rk rinds, and courtin' a heart attack, and by-pass surgery, do we want to spook-see what he's adoin' since we's a payin?

And those gadgets some folks use in the car for automatic tolls--no sir no-siree I doan use them or even debit cards--I doan want folks to know where I am every minute of the day..tracking my boring ole' life.

But like Hail-pig, I wanna use ever'thang we gots on the terrorists--ain't it a tangle??

Folks, Aunty is down in the back--no foolin' and Ya'll is most welcome to splice and dice this privacy topic--Bluebolt is on to something--
but I may have to ride easy for a bit and baby this here spine...guess I been keepin' it too stiff for so long...hee hee.

Hold mah fort, sugarplums,
Aunty Belle

Pete Bogs said...

Aunt B - is yours a dry county? I do like to set a spell on the porch, but I like to enjoy a pint whiles I does so... of course, yours might be a dry house... I have some nice Southern gals as relatives and they won't allow it in the house!

Aunty Belle said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Aunty Belle said...

Bawgs! Honey chile' I am so proud to have you c'mon over--ain't it jes' too funny, this ole'lady finally gittin' her own blogspot.

I figure that if the ladies is a sippin' Amontillado on the front poa-rch, then by all means we can have fine spirits back heah as well.

Fact is, I'm sipping a brandy alexander right now--strictly medicinal ya' know, seeing as how my dern back is whacked.

But, shhhhh! I doan want those
snooping spy eyes to gather digitals on my sippin' ....

This is what worries me: if I google an odd topic, within a day I get spammail with a subject line mentioning the odd topic...even when I do not allow cookies. How is this, Bawgs? And what else do they know??

Vexing, ain't it?

Aunty Belle

Bird said...

privacy laws and a privacy ombudsman? wow - i like australia more and more!

Hellpig said...

A look back on US history about surveillance

TAP THIS

Reverend X said...

For me it comes down to the basic question once again. Are we so enamored of our lives that we would give up any right to live them just to keep from losing them? I would prefer to live free for one day than live a hundred years enslaved. One Dirty bomb? You do realize that the standard definition of a "dirty bomb", as in what Jose Padilla has been jailed for life without a trial for, does not need to contain as much radiological material as a standard tank shell from an Abrahms? Those dirty bombs are already getting though to us with the trade winds. So let's have some privacy for our cancer.

infinitesimal said...

Auntie Belle,
If you are bored babying your back, please go to C'est Moi, Vanille and read my blog about the real ID.

Nobody else read it, but it is similar to your post.

I worked pretty hard on that post.

Oh Well, it is comin g in 2 years now. be ready.

An ID that is mandatory, one that carries all of your personal info on a micro chip. You will be tracked and scanned at every juncture.

There is no limit to what they can do with it.
That couples with the "smart dust" transmitters makes me think that we are not involved in a choice here, and debate is moot.

But since nobody read it, (except X did I am sure)
nobody knows.

The Real ID....Look it up if you think my blog is too boring. It is important y'all!

Hellpig said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Hellpig said...

I already have an ID

F
1975

here take a gander
Pig's ID

Aunty Belle said...

Hey ya'll....it's gimpy Aunty Belle--Lawdy, but this back is near bout broke in two!

Ladies don't suppose to yak so much about troubles, but I got enough of em' to curtail thangs somewhhat.

But I jes' love to see whose been visiting. Ya'll is my pets!!
(Freya you are right, puppy. This blog world will take some hours off the day--barely did get some real work done--standing of course, as I cain't sit at all)

Contessa Infinitesima, honey, I DID
read Vanille on NOWHERE TO HIDE and like to have swooned---that is fine work but now...why, I cain't sleep. I'm afeared of where all they might have stored up bit and pieces of me.

We are in 1984. But they's a throwing bread and circuses at us so we will laugh all the way to the slaughter... Very good reporting Contessa. We'uns need to talk about this more real soon--

I wanted to tell ya'll about cuzzin Joe-Bob's gig in the navy--he is retired now, but he learned me a thang or two on LEOs (Low Earth Orbit satellites) that he says can find a gnat on a fly's fanny. Used to keep track of those chipped containers and even people--"assets".

My, but we gots some jawing to do.

Guess you all are out at Mardi Gras...this here back cain't do no jigs with pigs or gentlemen.

Catch some beads for me.
(Ya'll doan forget to getcha' ashes tomorrow)

Aunty Belle

infinitesimal said...

Hey Bellw,

Now please read the Contessa's Book Corner post on Vanilla Bitch.
Please read "Nowhere to Hide" chapter ten under that post as well, that is more informative than the fluffy Real ID post.

I am home. I do not drink often. I hope your back feels better. lay offen them poark rines and maybe do some yoga when you are able.

Bird said...

heck of a biased new source you linked to there hellpig. that read like an op/ed,not a news report.it's dripping with bias. m

explain to me why the feds felt it was ok to spy on that Quaker organization (I can't recall their location)? yup,those quakers are a threat to national security and no doubt, terrorists in disguise.

of course, that's not quite the same thing as the wiretapping, but it still falls under the umbrella of spying on US citizens for no good cause, no rational reason, no basis in law.

the issue is that the bush administration bypassed the FISA court. FISA has rarely denied a warrant - so why bypass them?

Hellpig said...

Bird said...
heck of a biased new source you linked to there hellpig


Bird,I wasn't linking it as a news source,I just thought it was an interesting link, nothing more

Now if you are looking for a non-biased link I will indulge you.
Constitutional Surveillance

Pete Bogs said...

Aunt B - not sure how to answer your question... I don't Google very much...

Ben said...

Tidbit from Europe:

The European Union (25 countries) just agreed on storing any and ALL electronic connection records, That's the sender and adressee of every e-mail, that will be all connections via any kind of phone and so on.

Storing time: a minimuum of six months and up to two years. It's all done with the argument that they want to protect Europe from Terror.

Now, does anybody here believe they are actually going to ERASE the records after two years? And how can anyone control that they really stick to the minimum and just log the connections and not the content?

You are right. It is not possible.

BTW: The only two ministers AGAINST the new law were from Ireland and one Eastern country.

So, to everyone here (if any) still agreeing on tough new and ever expanding laws against terrorists: Those might be laws against YOU and YOU and YOU and ME before too long. Just depends on who sits at the captain's table.

Only good thing about it is that there IS (this blog as proof) a growing group of people who are sick of having politicians and companies record every hick-up we utter.

Summary: I agree with Belle's comment (no. 7). This is NOT going to stop at anyone's doorstep.

Aunty Belle said...

Yep, Ben, you got it right, I fear. So, I'm a wondering, what would a digital guerilla war look like? Is there a means of skewing the data they think they are saving?

I did tell Uncle Aloyisus onc't that iffin he jangled my nerves too much he might find that I took that transponder in his jeep and put it on my own windshield and run the toll booth jes' so HE would get a ticket...heh heh.

A'corse, I doan wanna harm some innocent person, but I would gum up the digital data landfill if I could stop 'em from profilin' me.

Mercy,
Aunty Belle

Bird said...

Hey Pig!
I'm adding The Weekly Standard to my list of online news sources for my students. Other sources on that list include: The NYT, The National Review, The Nation, Aljazeera, the Jerusalem Post, The Guardian Unlimited, SF Chron, InTheseTimes and more.

Thanks for the link.

Hellpig said...

Bird that sounds about par,given the state of public education these days.Oh yeah who runs that department..UMMMMM let me think the DEMS?

IMAGINE THAT!

Hellpig said...

Parsing Howard Dean's Iran "Nuclear Power" Remark

During a speech today accusing President Bush of being weak on defense, Dean stated that,

under no circumstances will a Democratic Administration ever allow Iran to become a nuclear power.
What is Dean exactly saying here? Why use the phrase "nuclear power"?

Is this a "no tolerance" policy that Democrats would not allow Iran to acquire a single nuclear weapon?

Or, is Dean saying Democrats would allow Iran to build nuclear weapons so as it didn't build enough of them to qualify as a "nuclear power"?

Also, let's remember that it was the Clinton administration that rewarded North Korea by letting that government keeps its nuclear weapons and cheat on the "Framework" it signed. Republicans should ask Dean if he has something similar in mind for Iran.

K9 said...

go into the forest and stay there. that is my plan.

infinitesimal said...

Hello Belleita,
How's that back? Yoga and a hot bath when you can, if you please. I hope you are gonna pull through!

Here is a random piece from the post "Nowhere to Hide" on my Vanilla Bitch blog. I posted chapter ten from the book, but here is just a bit of it.:


Radio frequency chips and readers likely will also be components in the "virtual border" to be created as part of the border surveillance program called U.S. Visit. Accenture, the giant consulting firm that won the enormous contract to build the system, used its familiarity with RFID to help distinguish itself from other contractors.

Some companies already are talking about embedding the devices into paper currency. Hitachi produces a chip that appears suited to that task. The Japanese company sent out a vial containing perhaps one hundred of them. At first glance the vial looked empty; only on closer inspection was it apparent the chips were in there, off to one side, black and minute. They looked like fleas.

About the same time, the director of the Enterprise Charter School in Buffalo began using the electronic tags to monitor the movements of students. Every student has to wear an ID card containing the tag. When they arrive at school, the tag triggers a kiosk to record their presence and display their photos. The same technology is used in a Texas jail and on wristbands to track prisoners of war in Iraq. For the school, it's about security and efficiency. "Before, everything was done manually - each teacher would take attendance and send it down to the office," the school's director Gary Stillman told Wired.com. "Now it's automatic, and it saves us a lot of time."

Aunty Belle said...

Hey darlin'!
Contessa that is fine work--thank you ever so much for this post--I'm thinking the white puppy is right--head to the hills!!

Seriosly. folks, take a look at Vanille's post on this RFID stuff--

Wil pilates do puddin'? I got one of them balls--drape myself over it---I'll visit Ben. Misery loves company, huh?