Pope, Islam and Catholics

That's Not What He Said, Ya'll.

The pope did not apologize fer readin' from the 14th century texts on Islam. He said he was sorry his remarks offended adherehts of Islam -that an offense was not his intention.

It's real important to git us a bit o' background on this. First thang is that Pope Benedict was a'speakin' to academics--not the public per se. His intent was to note that part of what riles up Islamic warmongers is the Western Enlightenment era's insistence that there is no place for faith in the modern world. That, in fact, faith is laughable.

The West pushed over faith on account of the Protestant dictum of sola fide which means "faith alone." The Protest-ants followed Luther into this idea because they was real miffed wif' Rome (some good reasons fer that) but as usual wif' rebels, they threw baby out with the bath....the Authority of the Church to teach and apply scripture ter modern situations is crucial.

Let's face it, the bible shure doan talk about cloning, so whose ter say iffin' it is moral in eyes of God? Why, the Church of course, since (if youse a believer in Jesus) the Lord done said "on this Rock I build my Church " and the Rock was Peter (Petros) to whom he was speaking at that point. Of course later Christ tole' ole Pete, "feed my sheep" and other instructions that make clear the intent of Christ to leave an authority behind. (Notice that Jesus did not say "on this book I build my Church.") All this is by way of saying that the Pope is speakin' on behalf of the Church and that the Church --unlike Islam--is of both Faith and Reason...one without the t'other is a prescription fer totalitarianism.

The pope also noted that, if the West shoved over Faith, Islam ( per 14th cent text as he quoted it) insisted on shovin' aside reason--That icon of the Enlightenment. No wonder they's a huge clash.

This is one cause of Islam's lack of modern progress, this disavowal of the importance of Reason. Finally--to these Catholic academics--Pope Benedict said that the Catholic Church teaches that BOTH faith and Reason are necessary: God gave us a brain in order to discern and discover God's own order in the world. These we learn and know. But our faith is in the ONE God as Source of all, Creator of All; He is beyond our reasoning capacity. Reason exhausts the limits of human capabilities and must move into Faith.

It is not that we put faith in thangs unexplainable or unknowable, but faith is in the ONE who is the source of what we do know by reason, as well as the source of what we do not know because it is beyond human capacity to understand, though we accept them "on faith" --the Incarnation, the Trinity, Resurrection. Reason and Faith are NOT in conflict, since they came from same source--Faith jes' completes what Reason points to. (For ya''ll who's scholarly, check out the encyclical Faith and Reason[ Fides et ratio] at www.vatican.va.) Find yoreself a smart Christian an' they can present faith to ya' in such a way as ya’ can see that it is reasonable--not in conflict with reason.

Easy, huh?

Ok...Fast Forwad now to yesterday (9.25.06) At his summer residence the Pope done tole' them Islamic clerics he invited over to hear how Rome was not thumbing nose at dialogue, that he did mean to say that Islam was fallin' a tad short--after all his predecessor John Paul II had more'n 60+ meetin's wif' islamic "leaders" and ya'll see what that got...exactly nuthin'. So this Pope, not carin' about oil, or nukes, figured he ain't gotten nuthin' ter lose but his haid.
So the Pope called for "reciprocity"--that we permit freedom of religion in the West--an' you Mohammadans is permitted to build yore mosques, so let Christians in Muslim lands build they churches. Seems reasonable, doan it?

What we'uns gotta choke down is that Islam doan like "reason" cause they thinks it chains up Allah. That any rules of rational thought puts Allah in some man-made box: They thinks Allah doan have ter follow his own laws of physics, and that such laws and rules of reality are subject to change at the whim of Allah in case he gits a wild hair to make sun rise in west.

No wonder them poor folks is havin' tough time wif progress--they doan respect the very well ordered laws of nature.

Now the key here is to recall that Islam is a heresy--it is syncretism based on Arian heresy and heretical Jewish teachin's that was loose around Mecca in 700s...whar a great many Arians and Jews was livin'. This is why that Byzantine Emperor fella in the 14th century said they's nothin' new in Islam but what is evil in men.
True evil doan like nothin' true. This is inclusive of freedom of conscience. See, this is why iffin' ya's muslim and wanna convert to sompin'else, they whack yore haid wif' a scimitar. No place for freedom of thought in Islam. Mss. Nina Shea over at Center for Religious Freedom done made that point--iffin' local muslim groups don't bow to jihadi's they is persecuted as if they was Christians or Jews. The Palestinian gubmint uses extortion to rob Christians in Nazareth and Bethlehem of they houses.

Evil seeks utter domination--and this is the mission of Islam TO DOMINATE THE WORLD (in the name of Allah). This domination is by the sword, not by faith or reason, cause there ain't much to have faith in, and it ain't remotely reasonable.

This is what the Pope was referring to--that our ideas of God shape the way we think about the most important thangs--like our purpose in this world. Jews and Christians know God as a FATHER, a lover of Mankind. A God who made order, and who set an ordered world afore all of us to learn ter live in and even to embellish in creative ways. God delights in our discovery of His order of the universe. He keeps it orderly so we can figger it out, and so thangs keep workin’ in a manner that we can work with it.

But now, contemporary Islam ain't like that on account of Allah not being a "father" (a blasphemy to muslims as it "reduces" Allah by imputin' to him some lowly human attribute such as fatherhood) Allah doan love mankind, jes' terrorizes him. This Allah is nothin' but will--and his will is to be done --and the methods doan matter. If world conquest (jihad) is the will of Allah, then murder and terror used to achieve world conquest is sanctioned by Allah as good--jes' as long as it is done for Allah's purpose. This is plainly monstrous.

The idea is pointed out by a Muslim la-di-dah, Magdi Allam, who talked with the Italian paper, Corriere della Sera. He said "Muslims, especially the so-called moderates, never stand up ... against the true and perpetual profaners of Islam, the Islamic terrorists who massacre Muslims themselves in the name of God?"


As if to prove the point, jihadis all over the world done yelped fer Pope Benedicts haid...they want him gigged, burned, beheaded and fed to dogs. They shot a poor nun who was only nursing sick, poor muslims, they demonstrated in the streets and mosques--they demonstrated alright--they demonstrated the Pope's point about the un-reasonableness of evil.

Next some liberal sycophants (sickophants) dhimmonstrated they "solidariity" with the "insulted muslims". They shoulda saved their sulfurous breath--even the lib leaning WAPO (Washington Post) noted that freedom of speech means letting folks quote from texts, fer Pete's sake. No matter yore thoughts on religion, iffin' youse agnostic or whatever, ya kin see that freedom of speech and Islam jes' doan go together.

Ask yore self this:What is more insultin', somebody sayin' youse unreasonable or somebody calling for yore haid on a pike and burning down your churches, shootin' nuns and flying planes into buildings?

After ratchetin' up the security at St. Peter's, the Pope said sompin' ter answer all those who think he "apologized" :
"I trust that after the initial reaction, my words at the University of Regensburg can constitute an impulse and encouragement toward positive, even self-critical dialogue both among religions and between modern reason and Christian faith."

Here's what I kin shure tell'ya...this Pope is very savvy--he put out fer discussion jes' what he dang well meant to put out there--fer us all ter examine. This is historical cause for one thang, Syrian and Chaldean (Iraqi) Christians is hideously persecuted, and so is Egyptians and Iranians and Lebanese...see? This year at Easter, in the jihadis struck Egyptian Copts (ancient Christian group) with knives and killed 'em right in public in Alexandria Egypt. And the gubmint will not let Copts rebuild their burned down churches. Martyrdom. Does ya'll see???

Them Jihadists smell a victory real real soon...they see a purge of Christians and Jews from all the historic Christian lands and churches and shrines. Remember, afore they was any moslems on earth, they was Christian Churches and Jewish Synagogues in Baghdad, Medina, Mecca, Nineveh, Alexandria, Antioch, Ephesus...

Why, the Christians in Iran date from the evangelizing of St. Thomas the Apostle!! (India too.) When the last Christian body is sent to the garbage dump and not one Christian is left in the lands where the Apostles set up the early churches, there will be sorrow, But some will say, "so what" ? We need less religion on this earth. And “it is religion that causes wars.” (Yeah—Like Stalin? Lenin?)

Don't get smug too quick, ya'll who worship reason alone; they will next come fer yore shrines, yore material palaces of pleasure, yore techno-centers, fer yore universities, libraries and all that Modern Man worships.

Mayhap that Islam will persecute and execute all people of faith....and some agnostics and atheists will think good riddance. Well, let's see how dark and cold the world becomes when all that's left to fight it out is Islam, Communism/socialism, and the militant one-worlders.


Anonymous said...

So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you? 13: Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. 14: If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. 15: For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. 16: Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. 17: If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them. 18: I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me. 19: Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he. 20: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. John 13:12-20

Anonymous said...

From Islamic holy writ:

Ishaq:315 "It was so criminal, men could hardly imagine it. Muhammad was ennobled because of the bloody fighting. I swear we shall never lack soldiers, nor army leaders. Driving before us infidels until we subdue them with a halter above their noses and a branding iron. We will drive them to the ends of the earth. We will pursue them on horse and on foot. We will never deviate from fighting in our cause. We will bring upon the infidels the fate of the Ad and Jurhum. Any people that disobey Muhammad will pay for it. If you do not surrender to Islam, then you will live to regret it."

neo said...

"Some day in years to come, there will be a plaque at the University of Regensburg which will read: On this spot, on September 12, 2006, where Pope Benedict XVI delivered a lecture on Faith and Reason, the God of Islam known as Allah, died."
--Jack Wheeler, courtesy The Brussels Journal.

Aunty Belle said...

Hey all ya'll--anon & anon...is ya'll the same folks? Thanky fer ya quotes.
Neo, yeah--Brussels Journal is one of mah favorite stops on the blog train.

A tad off topic,ya'll, go see the hilarious magazine, Jihad Bride.

Anonymous said...

News from early this morning:

The story as it appeared on the CNN website this morning: Muslim anger fear halts opera BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- A leading opera house called off a production of Mozart's "Idomeneo" that features the severed head of the Prophet Mohammed, setting off a furious debate Tuesday over Islam, freedom of speech and the role of art. The furor is the latest in Europe over religious sensitivities -- following cartoons of the prophet first published in a Danish newspaper and recent remarks by Pope Benedict XVI decrying holy war ...

suzisword said...

1 John 4v7 beloved, let us love one another, for love is of GOD;and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.............. Jesus said in Matthew 5 v 44 " i say 2 u love your enemies; bless those who curse u, do good 2 those who hurt u, and pray 4 those who spitefully use and persecute you. v46 for if u love those who love u , what reward have you........ (even the evil man loves his child)It is easy to love the loveble but to love the unloveable is Christlike.

Aunty Belle said...

Suzisword, with all due respect mah chile to yore intent is here, lemme jes' mention that Jesus was most lovin' when he drove demons outa folks in gross bondage. Never read of Jesus puttin' tellin' the disciples ter be tolerant of demonic actions.

And He was lovin' ter them moneychangers when He got their attention and let them know in no uncertain terms that He would not permit them to profane the temple with their blasphemous activity...and fer good measure, puddin' meditate on how Jesus said "If you deny me before men, I will deny you before My Father In heaven" Aunty submits to ya' that lettin' Islam burn Christian Churches, and revile Christian teachings on the divinty of Jesus is nothin' but denial of Jesus as yore Lord---think it over sweet pea..

Debbie said...

Great article and the pictures just make it that much better. The Pope knew exactly what he was saying and what he was starting, at least that's my humble opinion. From what I read about him, he is very precise in what he says. I thought at first he had apologized, but then I realized just what he had done.

I had a Muslim PhD/Prof. leave one of his articles at Right Truth, which I posted in full. He pretty much said the Muslims acted like horses behinds and the Pope was right. I almost fell out of my rocking chair, ha.

Thanks for the visit to Right Truth and the comments. I'm very happy to meet you and your blog. Come back to Right Truth any time, the door is always open. That's Southern and Tennessee hospitality.

Bird said...

well ab, though i am bored with all this and in, as you say, a "libidous" mood, i came by to take a look at what's going over heah.

yeah, jesus chased out the moneylenders, but note that he really didn't use a lot of force.

i didn't read your whole post, got too lost in it all. and like the child i feel i am regressing into, i enjoyed the pictures more than the text.

the whole thing saddens me. this pitting against one of the other. not saying it's wrong or right, or that some of it's not justified, just saying it's a pity and that the cure will not make us well. there is no winning in this situation i fear. we will undo ourselves in order to undo them. we will take away form ourselves in order to protect ourselves. we've already lost. (i am in a pessimistic mood this evening on this topic).

i watched some stuff on the jesus boot camp for kids tonight too. so some christians now are doing just what some islamic extremists are doing - teaching their children to fight for their god and that all others must give way to their beliefs. there'll be hell to pya for that - and somehow, i just know that this bird, and others like me, will be caught in the middle between extremists.

it's a damned scary world.

think i'll go back to all that sex talk.

it's safer. cleaner. and oddly enough, innocent.

WomanHonorThyself said...

Great post and images Aunty!

Malinda777 said...

Nice post Aunty, and great photos. Poor old Benedict...just gave a fact or two and a lot of shit broke loose. The reaction only proved the reality.

You did good on this one girl. Too bad 'ole Pope can't tell them to shove it where the sun don't shine :)

Aunty Belle said...

Hey ya'll--interesting responses--

Debbie, honey, youse on the mark--this Pope is very precise--as precise philosophically, historically as a scientist is with his work. Iffin' ya' read what he said in his entirity, ya can see hs has a message in a message:

That the Byzantine Emperor was a a place whar' folks had gotten slack in their faith, and were vulnerable after indulgent living..and the Mosllems at the door of the empire--Bebedict is saying (to those who will hear) THat the West is in a similar situation at this juncture in history --and the Moslems are agin' jes' threatentin' the folks who have forgotten how to live morally---Pope's messge was more about us'uns that ain't livin' by tr uth as we should.

Debbie, I did read that article your Muslim professor left--very good, thanky.

Bird, yeah, honey--it is a pity, a deep sorrow, and the "cure" won't help us unless we also make the core changes in our culture--we gotta re-anchor ourselves in goodness and truth--this is what the Pope was gettin' at--that it is true to note that Islam opposes relgious freedom and tolerance, and to face this is part of helping THEM as well as us.

Bird, while it amuses ya', the sex talk ain't really innocent, I fear. It seems less threatening than acrimonious discussions of politcal matters, but ultimately, it too matters deeply. Glad ya' like mah pictures---very rare 6th cent., these are. My copies from a remote monastery in Picos de Europa.

WomanHonorTheSelf, so fine ter have ya visit!! PLease c'mon on back when ya can, chile'.

WHy Hi Malinda--good ter see ya agin'! Sure puddin'. would be satisfyin' to follow yore prescription!HooWhee...alas, Pope may lose his haid over this, but then the world will see Islam fer waht it is.

K9 said...

/bark bark bark

aunty! those are the coolest images! they make the post! though the pope didnt apologize in the classic sense it is perceived as such and that annoys me.

dont you just love it when somebody like rosie o donell proceeds to correct a scholar like bene16? or claims that xtians are the same as radical islam?

"if you call islam a vilent faith we will cut off your head!" grrrrrherherhaha

heres a fine quote form ol bene16 i like that illustrates how the faith, meaning catholicism, is a faith of REASON:

"To come to the definitive question, I would say: either God exists or he doesn’t. There are only two options. Either one recognizes the priority of reason, of the creative Reason that stands at the beginning of everything and is the origin of everything – the priority of reason is also the priority of freedom – or one upholds the priority of the irrational, according to which everything in our world and in our lives is only an accident, marginal, an irrational product, and even reason would be a product of irrationality. In the end, one cannot “prove” either of these views, but Christianity’s great choice is the choice of reason and the priority of reason. This seems like an excellent choice to me, demonstrating how a great Intelligence, to which we can entrust ourselves, stands behind everything."


aunty did you see the demos in london? the signs read "we will conquer Rome" and "Death to the pope" nice. lets see, observations, cartoons, these are horrific crimes. head chopping, burnings of women and buildings, terror inc. ...hey you got "understand" that...tolerance baby!


suzisword said...

aunty belle i was in no way actually comenting on your post or even throwing "the love ur enemies" scriptures at u. i was actually confirming the first 2 comments. how clever he was in showing the real christian God against the 2nd post from the islamic post.i am all for... what you stand for and not against!!!!! as we know through the profesies what is going to happen and is busy happening. SOUND THE ALARM AUNTY BELLE. MAY THE TRUMPET SOUND

suzisword said...

p.s........aunty belle please read romans 11 and tell me what are ur thoughts concerning verse 25............................Anyway the kingdom of God is so diverse, some feed the flock,(milk of the word, right on to the meat of the word) there is already many gathering in the end-time harvest, then the trumpet sounds..... and that is you aunt belle....

D. T. Devareaux said...

Sorry, not budging. Benedict said:

For the attentive reader of my text, however, it is clear that I did not wish in any way to make my own the negative words spoken by the medieval emperor in this dialogue and that their polemical content does not express my personal conviction.


…I stressed how important it is to respect that which is sacred to others – my profound respect for the great religions, and in particular for the Moslems, who "adore the one God" and with whom we are engaged in "defending and promoting together, for all men, social justice, moral values, peace and freedom" (Nostra Aetate, 3) was clearly apparent.

So, not only does the Pope not agree, in any way, with Paleologus’ comments but he also stresses that the Christian god and the Muslim god is, in fact, the “one God.” So even if we pretendthe above is a non-apology, it’s completely undermined by his recognition of “the one God.” Whereas “the one God” may sound just groovy to certain naive Christians, I highly doubt you’ll find many Muslims in accord with such a sentiment—especially those who read and know their Qu’ran. What’s the Pope been studying all this time anyways?

Libby said...

great post, aunty! made me think (which is always a good thing!)

Crashtest Comic said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Crashtest Comic said...

This is the most ridiculously lame & idiotic blog I've ever read.

For someone like you to comment on the Koran (when you obviously haven't studied it) is a credit to morons everywhere.

neo said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Crashed comic, it appears you're the one who has "obviously" not read the Koran. Same reason you have trouble figuring out fantasy from action.
Kool pics, Belle.

Anonymous said...

Mjaycee here is a quote to match yours,

"In choosing Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger to succeed Pope John Paul II as Pope Benedict XVI, the Catholic Church has cast a vote for the survival of Europe and the West." Robert Spencer, author of The Myth of Islamic Tolerance: How Islamic Law Treats Non-Muslims.

Aunty Belle said...

On Faith and Reason as equal parts of authentic Christian worldview, the unmatchable GK Chesterton wrote:

"The Moslems imagined that they were merely being sensible when they cut down the creed to a mere belief in one God; but in the world of practical psychology they really cut it down to one Fate. The actual effect on ordinary men was simply fatalism; like that of the Turk who will not take his wound to a hospital because he is resigned to Kismet or the will of Allah. The Puritans thought they were simplifying things by appealing to what they called the plain words of Scripture; but as a fact they were complicating things by bringing in half a hundred cranky sects and crazy suggestions. And the modern universalist and humanitarian thought they were simplifying things when they interpreted the great truth that God is Love, as meaning that there can be no war with the demons or no danger to the soul. But in fact they were inventing even darker riddles with even wilder answers..."

neo said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
neo said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
suzisword said...

the muslim god and the christian God is not the same god. the muslims god does not love them he is prideful and wants, wants, wants, and wants, he is like a screaming kid throwing a tantrum if nobody bows to him. Our God(christian GOD) loves us and wants the best 4 us and we can have a personal relationship with him................... the muslim god....no relationship.

PaulaB52 said...

Thanks for your link to this post. I like your writing style, you're cracking me up! What you say is so true. I fear for Europe and America too.

Anonymous said...

The attitude of the Muslims toward the Christians and the Jews is that of a master towards slaves, whom he treats with a certain lordly tolerance so long as they keep their place. Any sign of pretension to equality is promptly repressed." (H.E.W. Young, British Vice-Consul in Mosul, 1909)

Anonymous said...

I think the muslims TRY to worship the same God as Christians. That said, their image of God has been shattered and distorted, almost past recognition.
In the end I fear this is a worse insult to our creator than a flat out claim that God and Allah are unrelated.

Pete Bogs said...

the Pope should not apologize... the Islamists should stop being so damned sensitive about everything and look at things reasonably - for once...

K9 said...

/bark bark bark

man there sure are a lot of deleted comments over here! what's up wit dat? aunty, i did a post about "us"


religion of pieces said...

Stirrings of anti-dhimmitude in Francaistan:

"In a comment piece in Le Figaro on September 19, he [Robert Redeker] said Muhammad was "a merciless warlord, a looter, a mass-murderer of Jews and a polygamist". He called the Qur'an "a book of incredible violence" and contrasted what he said were Christianity's peaceful roots and Islam's violent ones, adding: "Jesus is a master of love, Muhammad a master of hate."

From http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,,1886813,00.html

religion of pieces said...

A perceptive article on the Islamic cultural attack on the west:

'Violent Islam, cowardly Europe: from the cartoons to Regensburg'
by Samir Khalil Samir S.J.

Samir Khalil Samir, S.J. is an Egyptian Jesuit scholar familiar with Pope Benedict XVI and obviously given his homeland, Islam.


Aunty Belle said...

Hey ya'll...well we got a whole lotta stuff goin' on ...mah goodness. I ain't shure if we got one of four anons, but anon 1. thanksy fer the scripture quotes, and I'm takin it that ya' means ter show how Jesus is ddiffernt from Mohammed?

Yeah, NEO, that's some quote from a European--they know doan they? The Pope is very savvy---he knew what this remark would do--FORCE A dialogue.

Thaink I did respond ter most --but Dawg, ya' likes them pics?? Beatus de Lebiana (Spain)7th cent--he painted visions of the apocalypse on account fo the Moors was rushing up the Iberian penisula, ya see?

An I doan know was up wif the deletes--somebody snatched they words back, I guess.

Crashtest--ya' fer real? I ain't seeing what ya's so wrought up about honey. Ain;t nothin' in heah tha Muslims ain't aleardy done of said--does palin fact bother ya?

Hey BAWGS!! Sugar, Youse on the mark! Nope-pope doan need ter make no apologies...and he din't--only said he was sorry some folks took offense. DIn't say he was sorry he made the remarks.

ROP, hey darlin! Real pleased ter see ya--and thanky so much fer them fine quotes--yep...Samir S.J. knows...new fella at Vatican's Council for Islamic Studies is tougher sort and "dialogue" will have to include the "di" or it ain't gonna happen.

An now, folks...off the Pope goes to Turkey?? Waht can he be thainkin'???

religion of pieces said...


There are reports that Jesus is appearing to Muslims in dreams and converting them to Christianity:.




What are the Religious Police doing about it? How come this sort of stuff can get through censorship into Islamic countries? Can't the authorities put up some kind of dream firewall?

Most likely the Jooooooooz are behind it since they control all the media. And wasn't Jesus a Joooooo?

Aunty Belle said...

ROP, the only dreams I'se seeing is over at khilafah.com whar' they think Ramadan is the month of victories fer them...well, funny...seems ter me that BAttle of LLepanto and BAttle of TOurs is in Rammadan month.

religion of pieces said...

Attention all Christian congregations regarding the Pope's comments on Islam . If you live in an area with an active Muslim population, it may be wise to review your Church's security, fire-precautions and insurance cover:


bro said...

"He pretty much said the Muslims acted like horses behinds and the Pope was right. "

Then he should of told them to drop dead. Jesus would have.
He said to the jews who would kill him soon.
Matthew 23 v 27": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

If the pope represents Christ on earth he is wimping out. But he isn't Cheist said he has all power

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