1.28.2007

When is Christian Aggression Justified?

It is not unusual, folks, fer someone to ask, "What about love? What about turn the other cheek? What about Christian teaching?"

You know what? This is a real fair question. I can see it confuses folks to figger out how a Christian can be both Christian ans aggressively pursue an evil or a threat. Fair question.

Trouble is--ter mah mind--that the receptors for learnin' the answer has been bred outa lots o' folks. Jes' the same, I aim to take a fling at the answer in longer form soon when I ain't meeting a deadline o' mah own.

Fer now, though, lemme pose some questions back to all who ask about "love" as the reason to permit jihad (or any evil) to perpetrate evil and to grow bolder in spreadin' evil.

Ya' see an poor raggedy ole lady walking down a street and a gang of kids shoves her down and takes her purse. Youse strong and able...do you have an obligation to defend her? To get her purse back?

What ifit is a rich, mean ole lady? Does your actions change?

What if it is a mama with a toddler and a baby in a stroller? Does this make any difference? An ole' fella on a walker? A 10 year old wif' his lunch money?


What if the gang ain't kids, but thugs with guns?

What I hopes to learn is when ya'll feel the personal need to "get involved" to defend the innocent. Whar' is the line ? What are your personal guidelines?

My own hint on the matter is that I cain't get all the tears fer those on death row--I mean the susan sarandons of the world who have such "love and compassion" for killers, and no compassion for the victims and all who will BE victims iffin' the willful killers are not contained.

I'se real appreciative of all your ideas.

18 comments:

infinitesimal said...

my comment Aunt, was to the nature of human beings, as vessels, to be filled.

We are of free will. We can be filled with love, with the love of Christ in particular, with the illusion of love from another human being, with the illusion of non-illusion of buddhist indoctrinations.... bla bla bla... but we are, as a creation, or an entity as an existing living organism, a vessel, a container. I choose to recognize the beauty of the container, and not the ugly of the contents, because no matter how moldy or stinky or putrid, the contents of a vessel, the cobalt glass still shines purty in the sunlight once washed clean and set to the porch to sparkle.

I am, at heart, a Humanist.

So while scraping the clit, and plotting the next beheading, the jiihading muslim man is stanky and murky and full of dark, but his vessel? still shines in some respect, and it is that aspect that i love. It was that aspect, that Christ remarked:

"Forgive them, for they know not what they do."

A person is a container and a dum-dum is a person who does not see this and walks around thinking that their emotional responses are generated by neurons or some such thing. Aunt, this is waxing waaay to weirdo for a Blog comment for crying out loud.

A person can be filled with anything.

A pedophile can be filled with "those urges"

A philanthropist can be filled with generosity

A politician can be filled with sh*t

but we each have the free will to fill our selves with what we choose. The danger is in not knowing how wonderful and how empty we really truly are.

Do you get me Aunt?

All i am saying is that the Jiihad Arabs are not filled with what you and I are filled with... but I still MUST have love for their potential to be filled sometime in the future with the same kind of love. it is called HOPE, the last to exit Pandora's box.

Aunty Belle said...

Infini, I does get this--that we:
1) have free will
2) choose how to be filled
3) all have possibilty of filling
with good
4) the vessel, despite contents, is
good

Aunty would suggest that to love them (them is anyone given to *systematic* evil, not occasional horror) does not necessitate permitting them to do evil .

In truth, to love them is to stop the destructive behavior and show them their potential. This is "tough love"--ya' had this in some classes I betcha', right? Say, a kid bent on doing harm to other kids--your job was not to standby while he hurt other kids, but to stop him/her, then once the destruction is controlled, show the child his/her potential for beauty, good, truth.....

To show we forgive them does not require us to continue to let them do evil---iffin' ya' got a relative who steals from ya, you catch 'em, and then decide to forgive them, you ain't expected to leave them alone again with your checkbook jes' ter prove how ya's forgiven them.


If you choose to stop evil, that is not the same as failing to fill your vessel with love, is it?

I can admire and respect the vessel, but I think we have an obligation to stop the toxic contents from spillin' out over the innocent.

In short, Aunty sees too much passivity as permissive aggression against the innocent.

SO, summin' mah thoughts heah, sure--love t heir potential, but stop their destruction.

infinitesimal said...

I think this is when they invented the term:

Give it up to Christ

Because we, you and me, we are not Christ...

and when we begin to think of ourselves as the teachers, fixers, path providers... then we are filled with arrogance, and not love.

Love is the opposite of fear and if I am in order with my thoughts, Fear, is the premise of Jiihad.

I am just a purty bottle, and the potion contained within me is STRONG!!!!!!

but i cannot force anyone to drink what i possess inside of my bottle.

And i am JUST now beginning to learn how to be humble, and obey. Me, one of the most arrogant people I know. The first step was naming myself infinitesimal. The next step is finding a group. For where two or more are gathered, they Must Be Heard. But I will always say, that it is not our job, Aunt, to fight in a physical way. Hmmmmm. Although, there always is a battle and it is most always in the mind, over the spirit.

Thanks for keeping me company on a Sunday night. You do not know all that i have been through today, it was very long and very good.

Mr Q said...

Aunty, I thinks that things like prejudice and hate are not the same thing although the unability to distinguish between those is what makes it difficult to spring into action for the "right" causes. Being selective on who or what we save is acceptable, what is not acceptable is the make-believe idea of being the spreaders of democracy of the world, we are not and I don't like it when we say that we are. Selective action goes along with measured assesments which are a direct result of special interests, but if we keep denying our own identities then we will continue to be a target just like the lady with the stroller. I do believe in diplomacy before violence. Sadly though, sometimes we are not really giving any choices when we starve some nations with some of those "diplomatic" options like embargoes and special sanctions, that creates more hate and resentment against us than doing what Rev. Robbie sugessted we did in Citgo nation.
I am not afraid of proposing a fix:

1- Secure our borders.
2- Solve the status of all inmigs.
3- Bring "Made in USA" back.
4- Control outsource.
5- Last but not least, put our FP to good use, make us look good where it really counts, not where the special interest groups cash in and hurt our world citizenship.

To some, these things may sound a little liberal, but I think more of libertarian conservative when I say them.
To close for now, I think that "enough" is when more than 2 have deemed that is enough. There is no power of one anymore, except when voting, and even then is short lived, but not all hope is lost. The omnipotent will intervine one day.

Anonymous said...

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

John Stuart Mill


a quote, submitted by the artist formerly known as K9./grrrrr

Malinda777 said...

Amen Belle... The Lord almighty Himself expects us to defend our nation against evil forces.

Deuteronomy 20:12
"And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:"

NOBODY WANTS war, but some things are worth fighting for, and the preservation of our nation's freedoms and our Christian foundation is something worth fighting for.

infinitesimal said...

this made me think of you belle, and the memory you shared in a previous comment:

stinking arabs

infinitesimal said...

made a post today, about Nazanin.
If you doan know about her, come on over and see.

A man in Iran is worth 2 women...

Aunty Belle said...

Thanky Q, darlin', and Dawg, Malinda and Infinni--
this heah is a serious topic--and I does plan ter do a deeper piece on it..but fer now, what about the question turned around?

I mean--when is it IMMORAL to remain quiet, passive and uninvolved?

Did we do right or wrong to stop Nazi's??

Aunty Belle said...

Oh, and one more thought--ya'll know that the US service academies have more professin' Christians than not by a wide margin? Seems that lot's of God lovin' men and women think it right to defend liberty and aid the oppressed.

infinitesimal said...

Aunt,

your last two comments are separate topics fo' sho'.

I aim to tackle the first.

the second?

that is a damned if you do damned if you don't.

so I will just leave it be for now. mainly because i got the neighbor's dog waking me up after only 3 hours of sleep per night and i cannot even think straight.

when i get it together, i have an answer for that first comment there.

Hellpig said...

Whenever christians are threatened by the evil cult of Islam,aggression in justified


So always

butterflygirl said...

Just came by to say hello, I know it has been a while.

Anonymous said...

"A day may come when the courage of men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of men comes crashing down, but it is not this day. This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!"

JRR Tolkien

Aunty Belle said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Very Rev. Fr. Gregori said...

Being a Christian does not mean that one cannot defend themselves, their family, their friends or their homeland. Loving ones enemy does not include allowing them to terrorize, enslave or kill you.Christian "aggression" can never be justified or condoned, but defending one's life, liberty, family, country, or defending a helpless person against aggression is justifiable.

What makes liberal peace activists think that they are doing the Lord's will when they hold their huge peace rallies and denounce those who demand that we fight to protect our nation and freedoms, or when they demonstrate to stop the execution of killers, or protest to save whales, baby seals or other wild life, then on the other hand, they fight tooth and nail for a woman to have the right to "murder" their unborn children?

To all of the pacifists, I can only repeat the words of Samuel Adams:

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of SERVITUDE better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may prosperity forget that ye were our contrymen."

May you, who do not believe in fighting for freedom or for your life, remember these words if the day comes that you find yourself enslaved by Islam.

Reverend X said...

We all know to watch for the evil of wicked men. But there is a greater sin which goes on every day and that is the inaction of good men in the face of evil. Of course, this is a black and white statement in a technicolored world. It sounds good and it feels good to say it, but before one does anything, one must determine whether or not they are the good person or the wicked.

Someone recently said "No mercy for the villains!" to me. I responded thusly...

Mercy is always the most important thing to show your enemies. One can never be certain as to their own level of villany. But a "no mercy for villans" policy does allow one to be assured of their being a villan. There is no increment of negative small enough to have a positive value. Our leaders say that we must adopt the ways and methods of our enemies in order to preserve our values and our lives. I ask why our lives deserve preservation now that our values are the same as the ones we kill others for having.

I should have just said, "Death to all fanatics!" and walked away laughing at the irony...

Fundamentally there is no singular answer to your question. While on the one hand we have Jesus' admonishment. "Let he without sin throw the first stone." but on the other we have his righteous ass whooping of the money changers in the Temple. In that paradoxical event we see the cheeks being turned and then kicked by a man willing to give his life for a Christian Value which has been all but forgotten. Forgiveness.
Perhaps we should forgive those who trespass against us, but when faced with greater evil in progress, stop it by any means necessary. On this we must judge each event by its priority. I'd say genocide beats gay marriage on anyone's barometer. So, what should we do?

I know what we shouldn't do.

jules said...

Aunty: I think I would have been more inclined to step in and help the victim of the mugging, no matter who or what they were, many years ago. Now days, with all the thugs and punks out there willing to 'cap' anyone for even looking at them wrong, I am less likely to help unless I can be more certain I won't get capped in the process. I'm not willing to die helping someone get their purse back.