Ben and That Damned Tree

(This is a continuation of the exchange in the previous Back Porch post, "Pledge of Allegiance" whar Ben and Rev and Bird made they points on matters not much about flags and pledges but God and...well, ya'll will see. Oh, an' the Pledge of Allegiance yakkity yak now is morphed into patriotism, nationalism and socialism--iifin' ya wanna git in the fray. )


Well, mah goodness, chickens...ya'll been busy over the weekend.


Ben, I'se glad ya didn't "shut up" ...really pleased ter learn yore thoughts. This heah is deep topic...so lemme distill a portion fer ya heah in a new post.

The Garden of Eden is interesting--not goin' ter get into literal or metaphor heah, but suffice ter say, it is a story of rebellion against God who gave Man one command only--not to chomp down on knowdedge of good and evil--and theologians would tell ya' that heah the scripture is speakin' of experiential knowledge of good and evil--this is why the bite (physical participation) is crucial to the process of knowing good and evil.

Mayhap this is sounding too high brow...but think: I doan need to HAVE cancer (experience it in mah body) to know I doan want it!!

What God said to Man was, "Ya'll doan want experiential knowledge of evil, so doan be bitin' the fruit of that one tree over theah." But Man, havin' ever'thang else in the world (man had "dominion" over the earth) was jes' egotistical: God ain't tellin' ME what ter do! and ter prove it, Man was rebellious enough ter chomp that apple ayway...ah!

Now, he done knowed evil personally in his own body--uh huh, and got a taste fer some o'it. And evil shur nuff has a taste fer Man.

The rest--as the say--is history.

Now, Ben, Honey, ain't it true that we have empirical evidence of the quaint term, "Original Sin"?

Put two young'uns in play pen, each wif a full belly and a cookie. I guarantee ya that one toddler is gonna try ter snatch the other's cookie!

Why is that? Neither is hungry, both have equal cookies..so nothing biological is drivin' that little thang ter selfishness and greed--lessen we give some non-biological designation, like original sin.

Fact is Man has passions that doan advance his evolutional progress or biological needs.

Ben, do you see evidence of man's progress since Aristole? Cicero?
Erasmus? Locke? I doan mean techno toys--shur, we'uns have fancy trinkets and toys...no, I mean progress in the heart of man? Man as a species is no bettr'n he was in 1000 BC, 1 B.C., 500 A.D. or 2006 ...we still kill, we steal, we lie and cheat, we slander, we wage war, harbor bigoted and mean-spirited attitudes. We jes' do it wif lasers and tasers now. Do ya think youse any less dead hit on the head wif a jawbone of saber-toofed tiger or hit wif a microwave zapper from a LEO (low earth orbit satelite)? Naw..youse jes' as dead either way.

Aunty Belle doan see much progress in the heart of Man since Hammurabi.

SO, I'se persuaded, chile' that there is somethin' like Original Sin or whatever ya wanna name it--meanin' an intrinsic bent part of the heart that doan do good.

Animals doan have moral dilemmas
...they jes act on instinct, no moral premise a'tall.

We'uns have a sense of moral good and bad--every culture, every era has had it--whar's it come from? It ain't taught...it is evident in every culture that there is a "fair" way and a wrong way ter be toward yore fellow man--even ter the point of personal loss.

Looky, a hungry animal will take a haunch of antelope from his neighbor even if the neighbor lion was the hunter...and think nothin' of it. But man who takes what he did not earn is uneasy, knows he done wrong. The man wif food who watches another starve is uneasy, knows he should share. Man knows good and evil--

So if Man experientially understands evil because he violated (somehow, whether literal or metaphorical doan matter)God's warning...then it is NOT God who caused the heartache and pain of this heah "fallen world."

The seed of the consequence was ALREADY in the wrong act. Jes'like if ya has too much ter drink and wakes wif the space shuttle liftin' off in yore haid, ya doan say it is God's fault. Nope. Ya knows whose fault it is. Lessen youse one of those who think "God is so unfair! He put moonshine on the planet and it feels so good ter have a swig or two or ten, but He made it so it busts yore haid open like a overripe melon the next mornin'. What a mean nasty God he is!"

God didn't throw nobody outa paradise on account of a cosmic tantrum. The guilt we feel is there wifout God doin' a thang--it is part of what we found out wif that bite--the knowedge of good and evil means understanding of wrong doing. We git guilt from our ownselves--we knows we done wrong. It is interstitial, Ben. The body knows, the mind knows, the heart knows..the spirit knows.

Ya cain't escape it by definin' somethang awful as a "religious taboo" that "modern" man doan need ter worry about. Makin' it legal doan work either. The heart of Man KNOWS.

Metaphor or literal, notice in Genesis whar it says that after they bit that dang apple they "knew" they were "naked"....and when God asked Adam why he hid, Adam said "becasue I was naked" and God asked, "Who told you you were naked?"

Ya see? BEFORE the knowedge of good and evil, Man was happy and innocent
in his natural created state: He didn't know he was naked or even capable of being "naked" cause "naked" weren't in his vocabulary. Man was created GOOD(not fallen). Only after the disobedient act of rebellion did Adam understand the concept of naked.

The logical ? is, then WHY did God put that damn tree there in the first place?

Now, that is the big ?, ain't it?

The answer is that God, outa LOVE, was willing to take the risk...cause iffin' there was no way fer man ter choose to follow the order God had given ter the world, then man would only be a puppet--a controlled creature wif nothin' more unique than any other animal actin' on instinct.

But, Ben, God created man in HIS OWN image...as a creator, like The Creator, as an agent capable of making a free will decision...see, if there were no tree (or whatever) that constituted a chance fer man ter choose, then we'd be only automatons. And when ya makes a choice, God cain't be snatchin' back the consequences of the choice yer made cause then the choice is no choice--iffin nothin' ya did made a hill o' beans difference' then ya would have no choice since all the outcomes would be the same no matter what choice ya made! (Imagine puttin' in yore dime ter the drink machine and they's a bunch of choices listed; root beer, mello yellow (ick!) fruit punch, and pepsi..but no matter what button ya punched, ya got a bottle of water...why choose at all?)

God is a father...he did not want a puppet boy, He wanted YOU, in all yore You-ness. And He done took a whale of a risk givin' ya free will and He ....lost.

God coulda shriveld that tree up jes' the moment ya put out ya hand ter touch it...but that would be removin' yer choice, your free agency. He loved ya enough ter let ya make a cosmic shatterin' mistake.

But He didn't leave ya there....He came ter get His kid back--entered into His own created order, (like you enterin' into yore own paintin') though He is beyond that created dimension, He was willing, in love, ter come into it and make Himself a bridge fer ya to git back over to the best side of existence...iffin' you'd come, freely.

He ain't gonna make none of us come back to Him and His order..cause ya's still free...but if ya freely choose Him there is a remedy fer the "problem of Man."

On a less theological plane we can illustrate the point (flippantly ) by thinkin' about eatin' properly. Iffin we'uns try ter live on sugar and nicotine and potato chips wif beer, then we'uns is eventually gonna git real puny, and then sick--even permanent damage in the liver, kidneys.

But we think we can make "light beer" or "fat free" potato chips or "splenda" sweetened cookies and git rid of the consequences of our poor diet choices...but that is nothin' but marketing ploys, Sugar Pie....youse still gonna be sick...and iffin' a dietician tries ter tell ya that yore eatin habits is "wrong" note how some folks is determined ter prove the dietician wrong instead...and they keeps eatin' that junk and pretendin' they is gonna beat the body's system of nutrition needs.

Youse free to eat junk, but iffin' ya choose ter rethink it and that ya's sick of feelin' sick, then ya can git better pretty soon iffin' ya make adjustments to eat in accord wif how ya's made.

Natcher'ly in this illustration, junk food is sin...sin makes ya suffer--not cause God sends that sufferin' but on account of sin (like junk food) has its own consequence built in. And the fake sugar or "lite" beer is a metaphor fer fake spirituality. Man is made wif a spirit, and a body. That spirit will demand ter be fed somethang...and some folks try to appease that urge wif religion "lite" or "imitation" spirituality...all of which doan do any more'n fake sugar does fer yore body.

But changin' our sin habits so that we act more in accord wif the way we's made -heart and soul- will bring about better health of heart and soul.

God ain't punishin' us when we chose evil acts, He is heartbroken like any daddy would be when his chile' does somethin' contrary ter what daddy done warned the chile would bring misery. And daddy hopes his kid would c'mon home an say "golly, that was foolish, Dad, and I'm sorry I did that. Shoulda known better."

Dad says, "Son, c'mon in here and let's celebrate yore returnin' home. I am so happy ter see ya!"