Death of Democracy

Listen up ya'll, this heah is dern serious.

In Denmark they have sentenced a Muslim man fer mutilatin' his daughter with a cliteridectomy. This is on top of the Danes havin' ter sentence a whole tribe of muslims fer "honor killings" where they murder a female member of their family iffin' she wears Western clothes, goes unchaperoned into a Western restaurant or God forbid, a bar. In this case the woman --born in Denmark--simply married an Afghan man against her father's wishes and her 30 year old brother shot her. He got--ready ?--16 years in prison. This is justice? In Sweden another father got jes' four years for the same butchery of his little girl, a cliteridectomy --in UN speak, a "female genital mutilation." Four years.

Last year there was a notorious case of hononr killin' in Germany
where a Muslim girl divorced her cousin that her daddy forced her to marry at 16. At 23 she dishonored her family by dating German men and going to school. She was shot daid at the bus stop, folks--daid as a doornail. At 23.

But looky, the thang is that last year the Brits reported over a 100 "honor killings" and three times that many of Muslim women who disappeared under suspicious circumstances. And these heah ain't Muslim terrorists, but "normal" Muslims who have become citizens of Western nations and try ter live as Westerners and is killed fer it. See whar I'm headin' wif this? European democracies have failed to integrate the growin' Muslim population. Islam doan recognize no separation of religion and state, so they doan recognize the authority if the state to curb their "cultural" acts.

Ya'll planin' ter live wif this?

Lot's of experts is now sayin' that Islam cannot be integrated into Western democratic settings. Some even wonder if democracy can be achieved in Islamic countries--Turkey, the poster nation for democratic gubmint in Islamic nation, is now under seige itself--from within.

We's incubatin' in our democratic body a vicious parasite--Islam.

Uh-huh, that is an "intolerant" statement and I'se proud ter make it--we'uns must quit wishin' and hopin' that if we play nice and pretend that Islam ain't the problem that the problem will assimilate--it won't, or the problem will go away, it won't.

Islam wants to thrive--of course, jes' like we all do. Trouble is it can't thrive in a democracy, cause it has to submit its cultural values to European legal standards...and the Islamic folks won't to that. One or the other will have ter go--now which is it?

So far, everytime a major cultural clash comes up, European democracies wilt like a tulip in a steambath. Like turnin' the johns around in English jails so Muslim fannies doan face Mecca. That is a new "right" fer prisoners in a democracy?!!

We need ter finish what we didn't do in the 1200s. We need a new Crusade and we need ter finish the dang job this time.


velvet acid tongue said...

islam ... oh islam. sure they wanna thrive, but it seems their idea of thriving involves stomping out anything that isn't islam. so, how to integrate those who want absolutely not to be integrated? hmmm.

regarding the "fgm" ... its brutal. frankly, i think male circumcision is just the same sort of mutilation. wonder why so many of us (myself excluded, of course) condone it and even want our sons to be mutilated in this way.

your statement does smack of intolerance. and no doubt islam says the same things about us. not sure another crusade is the answer. seems awfully ...er ... brutal.

me thinks me just doan know. its a tuff one. this whole business of religions warring. violence begets violence.

well one thing i do know is that pascal got it right when he said there's no greater evil than when man kills/goes to war in the name of god-allah-whatever ya wanna call it.

it seems that the cornerstone of all organized religions is intolerance to the ways that aren't their own. i wonder, will we human ever learn?

oh btw - all the muslim women you mentioned that disappeared under suspicious circumstances? it makes me think of all those poor street girls/women in our own north america that disappear suspiciously all the time. and no one gives them a second thought. do they? 30 women went missing for 3 yrs b4 police decided to care

i guess i'm just saying we are no much better here in the west, though we like to think we are.

Stogie said...

Oh Velvet, you're wrong about us "not being any better than they are." Their religion commands murder: for those who refuse to convert or be dhimmi slaves; for those who choose to leave Islam for another religion, and just this past week or so, for two men for watching a soccer match on TV and for other Muslims who didn't report for the required 5 prayers per day. I don't know what police incident you're referring to, nor do I care, but Western civilization is in no way the "moral equivalent" of a culture that has murdered millions of people and is still doing so.

Should we have another crusade? No; not because I have any respect for Islam or its cultures or traditions, or the preferences of its followers...but because they just aren't worth the blood and money.

A better strategy is to isolate Islamic countries, achieve energy independence so we don't need their damn oil, and stop all immigration of Muslims into the West. In other words, isolate them to where they can't hurt us.

velvet acid tongue said...

oh stoggie, please do not put words in my mouth - i did not uses the words 'moral equivalent' ... merely attempting to see the other side of the story.

as for murder. well, we should not be too smug or self righteous ... just think of palestine - its occupation and the many many palestinians that have lost their lives in an ongoing struggle that is funded by the west.

don't kid yourself. we are not much better than they.

Bird said...

any stats on such honor killings, etc. in the US? i suspect here are far less.

the islamic population here is better-integrated into our western society.it's not just about being muslim - it's about how that immigrant muslim populaton is assimilated or welcomed into the dominant culture. the US, for all its flaws (which are many) is far more advanced than europe on assimilating populations and cultivating diversity at the same time - because we've been doing it for our entire national existence. we are far from perfect in this effort and need to improve, but we are seem to be (up until recently) headed in the right direction.

as always, i take umbrage with the blanket use of islam and muslims. not all muslims are alike and the only good muslim IS not a dead one.

you're talking about fundamentalism here.

thankfully, i think most of us are smart enough not to sign up for some crock-of-you-know-what religious war.

shame on you AB! you're calling for the mass annilahation of an entire group, based on your own cultural misunderstanding, ignorance, and fear.

by the way, when you speak of exterminating the muslim population - do you include native-born AMericans who are black muslims? is it all the same? do you include muslims who have integrated to the US and Europe and who are struggling and fighitng, writing and lecturing, organizing to help their religion and culture evolve? and what about muslim babies and children? kill them too in this crusade? seems to me your blanket label does indeed include those folks as well in the to-be-exterminated list. but let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say you only want to exterminate the "bad" muslims - how will you tell them all apart? don't they all look alike?

K9 said...

/bark bark bark

its like beating a dead horse. grrrrrrrr!
stogies point is a good one. we should have long since shifted our dependence on oil. it cant be done rapidly because the economy's built on it. ditto on immigration but thats across the board. we used to be more particular and egalitarian in who could integrate into this nation. now its anyone who can get here by whatever means.

as far as religion there is none so hated as Christianity. i have learned it and learned it well in my half year on the blogs. anything is acceptable and tolerated, except Christian faith. and if you are of this faith, youre an intolerant bigot every time.
so fine. how bout this for a rapper name?


K9 said...

/bark bark bark

velvet: is male circ the same? because that mutilation doesnt prevent men from experiencing pleasure as does fgm. the notion being to take away the womans incentive.

but why can we never say "this has happened" with out a "that happened too"?



velvet acid tongue said...

k9 yes the scale is obviously different, i admit in some sense there is no comparison. but circ does involve the cutting away of a perfectly good piece of body tissue (some pleasure sensors there, is my understanding, to obviously not on the same scale as the female 'version') for some cleaniness excuses. and ... i have seen a babe get circ'd ... it seemed brutal to me and the little critter howled and cried and shrieked.

re: "but why can we never say "this has happened" with out a "that happened too"?"

point taken. but ... i feel brushed against the fur when i see the pot calling the kettle black.


Aunty Belle said...

Hidy, ya'll.

Well...I does need ter make a small clariification---to yore point Stofie and Bird--Aunty ain;t callin' fer a crusade like that of the middle ages..nope. Callin' fer the mindset of crusade which was ter free oppressed Christians from boot of the saracen. mah idea is ter crusade by education aimed at democratic /free ppeoples as to the threat that Islam is to democracies. A modern styule crusade--of the mind and heart...not an actual war, excpet whar Muslims defy and break laws--then no quarter should be given them. No bending over backwards to accomodate their specific illegal practices (Honor killin's and such).

That clariified, lemme hop first onto Bird's comments. Chile',
Aunty B is miffed wif ya. We'uns can git in ter some high water honestly, no need fer ya ter try ter put evil words in mah mouth. Aunty did NOT say nuthin' 'bout wholesale killin of Muslims. And I sees ya try to switch the topic to Muslims rather than Islam. Let's keep it plain jes' ter be clear wif one another....

did'ja mean ter imply that muslims were an ethnic group or a religion? I think ya meant religion, since ya indicated such wif Black Muslims...

Aunty is part A-rab, ya see? So I ain't swipin' at no ethnicities. Mah post is about the threat of ISLAM as a systematic teachin' of cultural practices and attidudes that is not compatible wif democracies.

Shur, some mulsims can be integrated...they become "westernized" but Bird Beauty, that makes them hated amoung their own--see? The very act of adopting American ways is what makes some muslims hated in their own religion, as heretics. That actually makes mah point.

Velvy, this is how I try to untangle ideas from practice: Shur honey, they's folks in America (and everywhar) that doan do right...but that is not the point I'se gettin' to. What I mean ter make plain is that ISLAM is a systematic teaching of hate and intolerance toward all non-islamic practice. It calls fer war, fer killin', fer abuse of "rights" accordin' to Western law.

Now America and democracies have individuals that do wrong--but that is an abberant individual...it ain't the teaching of democracy. It ain't inherent, ain't systemic. That is the crucial difference I'se gettin' at...the teaching of Islam is fundamentaly opposed to democratic understanding of the rights of human beings.

This is what I see: Velvy and Bird and some others too are most concerned witha "structure" of "intolerant" dialogue that would make "blanket statements" about Islam. But what ya doan seem ter see is that ISLAM already made that blanket statement about itself--I'se only repeating what it tells of itself.

So think now--leave off the emotion of the point and think in terms of absolutes---i.e. "The sun rises in the east every day of every year and always has and allways will." This heah is a blanket statement. Nuthin' inherently wrong wif blanket statements --of fact. And that is what we have--ISLAM has made this point about it's own self. BUt ya'll is discomforted so much by that reality that ya turn ya heads away...and instead try to deflect that threat by focusing on the structure of the dialogue about Islam--but, is that foolin wanyone? Even yourselves?

I mean, does ya think that by flinging out a charge of "intolerant" that ya can make the threat of Islam go away?

Now fer Dawg...ah Pup...youse sayin' true...the mst intolerant folks hangin' around is anti-Chrisitian folks...but thay doan mean it. They jes' folow the trends and --here is the secret---some folks jes' will not tolerate any dogma that refuses to sway in the wind with every change of the season, or change of era. They are not happy wiif a universal truth, especially one that challenges their personal practices.

Now--this ain't a comment aimed at Velvy or Bird or any specific bloggers...it is an observation that hints at WHY Christianity is so attacked, even more that Islam which is patently more horryfying in its teachings.

Here is the litmus test: If you are a practicing homosexual, whar will yore rights as aa human being be most resppected? In a Chrisitian nation or a Islamic nation?

Stogie, always pleased ter see ya. Yore plan of isolation is right on.

velvet acid tongue said...

there is no universal truth, in my view. and the fact that segments of society chose to believe such does not make it so. and so, yes i don't tolerate any dogma that purports there to be such.

re: "mst intolerant folks hangin' around is anti-Chrisitian folks"

as someone raised in a staunch and devout catholic family i assert that catholics are right up there when it comes to intolerance. but i concede, that intolerance is not even on the same scale as that which Islam breathes.

re: "If you are a practicing homosexual, whar will yore rights as aa human being be most resppected? In a Chrisitian nation or a Islamic nation?"

i think we are all aware enuf to realize that it would be a matter personal safety, as opposed to human rights. that is the scale of islam. and so, while pockets of christianity are, in themselves, intolerant of homosexual lifestyle, the christian nation would obviously be the answer to your question.

now that you have clarified your meaning of 'crusade' ... and i have re-read your post. i must say you are right. Islam and democracy seem incompatible. just as sure as i cannot build a fire with wet wood. these two world views - islam and democracy - seem incongruent.

that said. where does this leave us? considering it is the most popular religion on the planet.

my two cents on terminology: islam is the religion ... muslim is a disciple (follower) of islam. this is how i think of it, anyhow.

Hellpig said...

K9 Like beating a dead Bird is probly a better analogy...She knows 2 muslims and blankets that relationship to mainstream Islam......Look up Dearborn Michigan and take a look at the homegrown muslim population...My prediction is SF will be the first to adopt Shari'a Law

WayneDawg said...

I don’t know how many times I have told my conservative buddies that trying to ‘install’ democracy in a Muslim country is akin to trying to bend over and kiss yourself on the rear. No matter how hard you try it’s going to hurt like hell and your not going like what it smells like the closer you get to it.

I agree with Stogie; isolate these countries and come up with a better energy plan than oil. Once we cut off their money they will simply resort back to the dark ages. After all, that’s all these countries really are; a bunch of rich Arabs living in the dark ages with today’s technology at their finger tips. Very dangerous indeed.

Aunty Belle said...

Velvey, funny chile' youse dayin'
" and so, yes i don't tolerate any dogma that purports there to be such."

Well puddin' tha statement of yourn is itself dogmatic....you cancel yoreself out.

Youse not goin' wif a universal truth?
Seems strange honwy--that's rthe idea of those 70s kids ain't it?

Lots os universal truths you accept, I s'pect. Like that the sun rises in the east, water seeks its level, men and women fall in love irrespective of cultures of eras....

Now Velvy, think honey--youse sayin' Catholics is intolerant, but youse not toleratin' them simply cause they have strong beliefs you doan agree wif? So, yore point is that when Velvy doan agree the other folks, then them others is intolerant cause Velvey cain't make them change their thoughs or ways? Hows you any different from them?

Catholics ani't inolerant--dogmatic and intolerant ain't synonymns, puddin'. An since Catholicism is an elective affiliation, what a Catholic believer believes is the choice they have made --how's it that youse dissin' folks for their own choice of what to beleive when you done made YORE choice about what ter believe?

Sweet Shoat, yep--Dearborn is alarming. Highest muslim population in USA.

Hwy WayneDawg...youse on the money, darlin' Right on the money.

But fer that oil angle....ya'll know we gots all the oil we need--now that we're kissin' 70 bucks a barrel, it approaches the cost of processing shale--we'uns got an ocean of that....I'se been thinkin' that the oil war ain't about oil fer us, it is about keepin' china from slurpin' up the rest of the west--

Aunty Belle said...

Lawdy! See what typin'wifout glasses does ter mah posts---sorry mah chillen'.

K9 said...

/bark bark bark

aunty! welcome back!
interesting times you return to.
you got them beans and weenies put up in dat hole in da ground? /grrrrherherhahaha

CenFla blog meet up: late august/early september!
cheese grits and fishes!!!


Aunty Belle said...

Well, chillens'. Aunty Belle's been busy, thus remisss keepin' up wif ya'll...but a new post this weekend--sorry for the dull sameness --although, wif Hezbollah rearin' up, mebbe this post was worth lleavin up long while...hmmn?

Pup?? Ok, oK! Youse comin' thisway? I'll stir up them grits, Dawg!

Percival said...

This is not silly enough for me to comment, but thank you for visiting my blog, mine long-lost Auntie -

Percy, your Nephew

K9 said...

/bark bark bark

aunty: didja see the joker of spain with that little speckeled towel on his head? Spain you must be weeping tonight. doomed to repeat some history.


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